Pay for Spray

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Offline Mac

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Pay for Spray
« on: December 08, 2011, 12:16:47 PM »
I get it times are hard but to me this seems EXTREME!  and if your a neighbor of this family and a volunteer Firefighter how could you just watch this happen?



http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t2#/video/us/2011/12/07/mxp-pay-for-spray.wpsd

Firefighters let a home burn to the ground because the owners had not paid a $75 "pay for spray" fee.
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Offline gunslinger

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Re: Pay for Spray
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2011, 07:34:29 PM »
Yup.
And if you don't pay your land taxes, they'll watch as you lose your house that way as well.


Pay or burn.  Seems like a simple choice to me. 
People think that the rule doesn't apply to them.  There's a 'school of tough love' lesson right there.
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Offline canoeman136

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Re: Pay for Spray
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2011, 08:49:38 PM »
If you saw the local news channel, the woman acknowledged she knew about the fee, didn't pay because she didn't think they would have a fire.  Well, here is your sign!!

Offline tree68

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Re: Pay for Spray
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2011, 01:14:14 AM »
Discussion of this on the Firehouse forum tends toward the "here's your sign" sentiment, although there are firefighters who are aghast that their brothers would do such a thing.  Many take the tack of putting the fire out and sending a bill, but getting such bills paid is usually an exercise in futility.

A similar incident occured involving the same area a year or two ago.  Those people "forgot to pay."

These folks have voted down, several times, a fire levy or other such measure. 

It's their own danged fault, but it's a lot easier to blame someone else.

Apparently some folks are so upset about it that they've threatened other fire departments in the area (including personal property) - departments which weren't even involved in the incident.
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flathead8ab

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Re: Pay for Spray
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2011, 10:45:53 AM »
This is a fairly common set up in the rural south. They are know as "subscription fire depts". You pay a fee and they come put out your fire. Usually a chief officer checks if there is a life threat (someone trapped...a question if all occupants are out) and determines the response. If it's property only, they protect only the exposures of paid subscribers. As tree says, this is usually a hot topic on fire forums when such an incident occurs, but it's the way they operate.

Much like car insurance, you can't call Allstate and ask to be covered after you've had the accident.

Offline Loser

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Re: Pay for Spray
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2011, 03:24:33 PM »
I've seen this before, i have to wonder if it's snopes worthy.
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Offline gunslinger

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Re: Pay for Spray
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2011, 06:26:19 PM »
I've seen this before, i have to wonder if it's snopes worthy.

snopes away.  it's for real.
I won't be the victim, but the first to cast a stone.

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Offline tree68

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Re: Pay for Spray
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2011, 11:16:44 PM »
I've seen this before, i have to wonder if it's snopes worthy.
snopes away.  it's for real.
Very much so.

Google "subscription fire department" or "Obion County."
Tree

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Bluelight10

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Re: Pay for Spray
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2012, 12:08:31 PM »
Crazy!!!!!!!!! What kind of FF responds to fire at someone's home and then stands by and lets it burn? The mayor claims that it is a cost issue but is it?  Looks like extortion to me.  The trucks are on scene, the manpower is on scene, water is free (just draft it) so where is the cost of putting water inot the fire?  This is a practice that has to stop.  Most of the US is served by volunteer FF and people in rural areas need protection too.  Maybe they could not afford the 75$, where is the compassion.  Shame on them!!!!

Offline gunslinger

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Re: Pay for Spray
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2012, 03:48:42 PM »
Crazy!!!!!!!!! What kind of FF responds to fire at someone's home and then stands by and lets it burn? The mayor claims that it is a cost issue but is it?  Looks like extortion to me.  The trucks are on scene, the manpower is on scene, water is free (just draft it) so where is the cost of putting water inot the fire?  This is a practice that has to stop.  Most of the US is served by volunteer FF and people in rural areas need protection too.  Maybe they could not afford the 75$, where is the compassion.  Shame on them!!!!


Are your initials BHO, by any chance?
I won't be the victim, but the first to cast a stone.

I am the one, true gunslinger - you shall put no other gunslinger before me. 
guns 1:01

Quote from: EvilJam

If we just all Open Carry there will be less gun violence.
 
 

Offline tree68

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Re: Pay for Spray
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2012, 05:22:34 PM »
Crazy!!!!!!!!! What kind of FF responds to fire at someone's home and then stands by and lets it burn? The mayor claims that it is a cost issue but is it?  Looks like extortion to me.  The trucks are on scene, the manpower is on scene, water is free (just draft it) so where is the cost of putting water inot the fire?  This is a practice that has to stop.  Most of the US is served by volunteer FF and people in rural areas need protection too.  Maybe they could not afford the 75$, where is the compassion.  Shame on them!!!!
75$???

Most of the folks here already understand - in case you don't:

Where is the cost of putting water on the fire?  A pumper costs anywhere from $250,000 to $600,000.  Fuel to drive it to the fire is over $4 a gallon.  There's the electricity to heat and light the station, hose to move the water, nozzles, protective gear, the list goes on.  Never mind responses - just having the equipment available costs tens, or even hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.

These people have opted not to pay a tax for fire protection - as a community, they'd prefer to pay a subscription fee. 

But fire protection still costs money.  If you want the service, pay for it.  If you don't, oh comma well...

I'll grant you that the practice sucks - very few will disagree, in fact.  But that's the path these folks have chosen, so that's the path they have to deal with.
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Offline The Reaper

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Re: Pay for Spray
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2012, 06:06:21 PM »
Just make sure you have fire insurance.  Odds are, unless you live close to the responding station - you'll lose your home anyways.  ;)
"Progressivism does not enlighten people - it merely makes them stupid in new ways"

Offline tree68

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Re: Pay for Spray
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2012, 08:25:49 PM »
Just make sure you have fire insurance.  Odds are, unless you live close to the responding station - you'll lose your home anyways.  ;)
Not necessarily due to any action (or inaction) of the fire department.

I characterize new home construction as "toothpicks and cardboard."  "Engineered" lumber is meant to support the designed load, but few - if any - complications.  Expose a truss made of 2x2's or an "I beam" made of 2x2's and particle board to fire and they won't last long.

On top of that, most of the furnishings are plastic and burn like gasoline.

Compare that to building constructed with full (and even multiple) 2 bys and filled with furniture made of natural fabrics, etc, and there's no comparison.

Like Reap says - once they get going, they're gone.
Tree

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Nonsense is timeless.  It's just more easily disseminated these days.


Standard disclaimers apply.  No expiration date.  Your results may vary.

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Bluelight10

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Re: Pay for Spray
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2012, 09:14:11 AM »
Dear Tree 68:  No it is you that does not understand.  We don't run fire protection for profit.  This is a community function that should not depend on your ability to pay.  My post recognied that the trucks did respond to the fire (so your point thta a fire truck costs hundreds of thousand's of dollars or gas is 4$ a gallon is moot)  These cost have already been incurred.  By the way, how did they buy that fire truck?  Maybe these people have been supportive in other ways (Chicken BBQ, Auctions, Bond issues etc...)

Where is you compassion?  I do not belive that this is a true reality, just extortion.

Offline gunslinger

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Re: Pay for Spray
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2012, 09:19:57 AM »

Where is you compassion?  I do not belive that this is a true reality, just extortion.


If I were called to that scene and the folks didn't Pay for Spray, my compassion would be evident in the bag of marshmallows, box of graham crackers and package of chocolate bars that I would extend to my fellow firefighters.  Gratis.
After all, why let a good fire go to waste?
{If the folks that used to live in the bonfire want a s'more, they can have one too - they're $2.50 apiece}


Again, are your initials BHO? 
I won't be the victim, but the first to cast a stone.

I am the one, true gunslinger - you shall put no other gunslinger before me. 
guns 1:01

Quote from: EvilJam

If we just all Open Carry there will be less gun violence.
 
 

Offline tree68

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Re: Pay for Spray
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2012, 10:07:40 AM »
Dear Tree 68:  No it is you that does not understand. 
Au Contraire - I understand fully and have been involved in discussions on the topic on forums much larger than this.

These folks don't pay property taxes for fire protection.  They do so by choice.  The fire department in question has no legal responsibility to provide fire protection in the area involved.  This particular couple gambled that they wouldn't need fire protection (and admitted as much) and lost.

Here in northern New York (and for most of the country, for that matter), we pay property taxes for fire protection.  Everybody pays, no exceptions.  The occasional case of someone not paying their property taxes is the exception, not the rule.  Thus the fire departments (along with the police, highway department, etc) are all guaranteed a consistent income with which to purchase and maintain their equipment and facilities.  And they provide service without having to check on your payment status.  You're right - there's no profit involved.

Back to Obion County - There are several cities there which maintain fire departments - that's how they bought those fire trucks.  The rural areas do not have fire protection as such.  It is provided by the good will of those cities - for a price.  Here in JeffCo, that means the township levies a "fire protection tax" on each and every property owner (see the thread on fire taxes).  In Obion County, there is no such tax levy.  The residents have voted one down in the past.  Several times.

I can't blame the fire departments in question for not wanting to provide service without some manner of recompense.  The method they've opted with is a subscription program.  It provides a stable funding source on which they can depend for planning operations, purchases, etc.  If they allowed folks to pay up the $75 if they had a fire, nobody would pay ahead of time, and the fire departments involved would lose that income. 

Here's the discussion on this incident on Firehouse.com.

The same thing happened in the same county in 2010, too.  Here's the discussion on Firehouse.com.

It's really not much different than insurance.    You're not going to find an insurance company that will sell you a policy after you have your accident...
Tree

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Nonsense is timeless.  It's just more easily disseminated these days.


Standard disclaimers apply.  No expiration date.  Your results may vary.

“I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson